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Get two....the ferals (human and otherwise where I leave) need some therapy.


Can I have mine with the AG416 grenade launcher?


This one can attach a scope but but the gun's got to be shaky because it's so small, so it won't do much. The closed-bolt position won't do crap for the accuracy if it's all over the place when it's fired, which means single fire is the way to go. Not only that, but a smaller barrel means the suppressor isn't very effective, is harder to use properly, and is going to wear down faster. I doubt it can even attach one since it's so small.

In short, if you want one, suit yourself. I don't want it if I'm not going to use it. And there isn't much reason to do so.


The gun won't be 'shaky' as you describe it if your marksmanship principles are applies. Namely, position and hold firm enought to support the weapon. HK use diopter sights at the fore-end, same as the MP5, and who could deny the accuracy of firing with this sighting method? Suppressors would able top be attached with the use of a threaded barrel tip, however, it's effectiveness is compromised by the speed of the round. Let's face it, carbines are used due to size factor such as working in confined areas, around vehicles, stowage in aircraft etc. Why you would want an extra 6-8 inches of metal hanging off the end when not normally required is beyond me. If I want to shoot someone, by the time they hear the sound, the bullet's probably already in their head. Sort of pointless for my operations. But, there is a role for them, and I have no doubt that some one could utilise it effectively.

The HK416 is still the same length as most modern assault rifles, ranging from the Galil, to the Steyr AUG, the FN SCAR, HK's own MP5 and UMP. So, size isn't a big factor. This was HK USA's method of cashing in on the penchant of manufacturers to muck around with the M16/M4 platform and call it something else. In the end, it's just another small calibre select fire, in a large group of the same.

I'd still have one with the 40mm grendae launcher though.


Looks deadly, definitely want one of those, looks better than the XM8 at world guns.


Yeah lets all buy on looks alone. Now I prefer the M16 family over AKs and the SA80 L85A1/A2 Individual Seal Club (whatever it is this week). And HK know guns. So an HK M16 makes sense - it comes in a variety of barrel lengths but everyone knows the Hollywood, armchair heroes and HRUs like short guns. At 10.5" is it a serious alternative to the MP5? - I await some serious evaluation but I guess yes. Do I want one?- yes! But one gun does not do it all so only as part of an arsenal.


I meant that the specs overall look better than that M16 replacement, plus HK guns are known for quality (and a stiff price tag). It's obvious an assault rifle doesn't do it all, but trying to be a one man platoon sounds even more Hollywood.


What is the price on one of them.

Dave Parker

For an HK 416 upper it's around $900
for a hole HK 416 it's around $1450


Question: Dave Parker
How did you get the price of the HK 416? The HK dealers I have contacted know nothing of price and when this weapon will be available. Would you have contact info of one?


where can I buy upper HK 416?


SOCOM approached HK concerning improving the M4 series, simular to what HK did for Englands SA80. From the magazine article, all it cost SOCOM was 10 carbines, HK absorbed the costs. FN did a simular approach to the SCAR series, absorbing the R&D costs. The SCAR will be produced in the US, I'd assume that the HK416 would have as well if the planned plant in Georgia would have broken ground. The whole concept of an upper assembly replacement basicly becomes a new, improved, more reliable weapon.

From everything I've read and the reviews of the gun magazines and Janes, the HK416 is everything the M16 series should have been. I for one would feel very confident knowing that members of my squad had rounds down range than performing immediate action drills.


Kody is full of crap. The only people that have access to these are SOCOM and yes, they have a 7.62 version, the HK 417. Run a search on HK 417 and you'll find out they exist. SOCOM has been using them in SWA since the 416 project went so well.

Buy a 416 - that's a good one.


u ppl are fuckin retarded. you read this shit on the internet and act like your a fucking expert, and no, playing a fuckin video game doesnt make u an expert. i doubt youve ever fired a real gun u fat fuckin retards


If you want something even better check out a company called Leitner-Wise.
The former HK 416 project manager is now working for this company.


As cool as the 10.5" looks, the ballistics would be crap. I would much rather take the 14.5 or even better, 16.5, to the fight. None of the rounds would be effective coming out of a 10.5" barrell. I'd rather take a UMP .45 than the 10.5. But the 16.5. That would do some serious damge on contact. I have never seen prices, but I rreally want one. For an H&K, I pulled out an equity line on the house. Seriously!

killhouse artist

yeah most of these posts are incorrect, HK does not sell rifles to civilians so unless your on dept. letterhead you wont be seeing an hk416 or hk417 anytime soon. the smaller barrels do effect reliabilty in the current gas sytem, but the new piston AR reliability makes the SBR viable. ( i could talk all day about ar15/m16 barrel lengths and bullet weight, go with 18" or 20" lengths and over 60gr bullets. )

I understand that some of the US and Britian specops have adopted the HK system and it has been used successfully.

11B and kody are retards, dotn listen to them. the price for the DPS is well over 2 grand for the complete rifle.

IF YOU MUST have a HK16 just go with one of the newer uppers that have the piston gas system. COLT is coming out with a piston upper soonish and manufacturers like POA and DSA already have piston uppers for your AR. you can get the hk sites.

and thanks "wtf", im reading up on Leitner-Wise now.

[email protected]

killhouse artist

yeah most of these posts are incorrect, HK does not sell rifles to civilians so unless your on dept. letterhead you wont be seeing an hk416 or hk417 anytime soon. the smaller barrels do effect reliabilty in the current gas sytem, but the new piston AR reliability makes the SBR viable. ( i could talk all day about ar15/m16 barrel lengths and bullet weight, go with 18" or 20" lengths and over 60gr bullets. )

I understand that some of the US and Britian specops have adopted the HK system and it has been used successfully.

11B and kody are retards, dotn listen to them. the price for the DPS is well over 2 grand for the complete rifle.

IF YOU MUST have a HK16 just go with one of the newer uppers that have the piston gas system. COLT is coming out with a piston upper soonish and manufacturers like POA and DSA already have piston uppers for your AR. you can get the hk sites.

and thanks "wtf", im reading up on Leitner-Wise now.

[email protected]


The HK416
The M16 has finally been fixed
Cal 5.56 mm x 45

HK416 with 14.5 inch barrel on deployment in Iraq (center). Scope is Schmidt and Bender Short Dot.

HK Defense internal publicity photograph of HK employee with 14.5 inch HK416 Carbine

In one of the most significant advances in the M16 system since its inception, the HK416 had the potential to take the black rifle world by storm. Unfortunately, several missteps by HK ownership have done much to prevent the full potential for this weapon system. What you see above are the four main HK416 production models. Here at HKPRO, and only at HKPRO, you will get a comprehensive look at the 416, it's history, and some detailed information as to how it came to be, and who was responsible for it.
In the free world, and especially the United States, the AR15/M16 is the de facto system in the hands of not only the military and civilian police, but also the American sport shooter and military gun collector.

It was always plagued by one inherent flaw, the direct gas impingement system that was responsible for a myriad of problems in reliability, that are largely controllable if the weapon is kept clean and lubricated. However, this is not always possible in the operational environment.
HK enjoyed considerable success with the redesign of major components of the SA80 system deployed by the British military. The SA80A2 bears not only the HK trademark, but the advanced engineering that made a notoriously unreliable rifle trustworthy again.
It was only natural that HK be the one to apply its engineering expertise to the M16 system.
They did, and the result was the HK416.
Originally called the HKM4, Colt filed suit against HK for patent infringement on the rifle design, and for trademark infringement on the term "M4." The suit was settled out of court under undisclosed terms, but the trademark issue was won by Bushmaster when it was ruled that the term M4 was not proprietary to Colt, and could not be claimed as such. Conceivably, this ruling also applied to HK, though it has not been specifically enumerated as such.

At the time of this writing in June, 2006, the HK416 is still not widely available to other than military and federal law enforcement. This year promises the system to be sold to state and local law enforcement agencies, and it has not yet been decided if that would include individual officer sales.

HK received written permission from BATFE in 2004 to sell upper receiver kits without restriction. This has since been complicated by new import restrictions on barrels that are meant for or can be installed in fully automatic firearms.

The ownership of HK has been pressured by nearly every facet of the American civilian, police and military communities to make this exceptional system, even if only the upper receiver, available far and wide. The financial incentives should be obvious. And from a liability standpoint, which ostensibly is why there was hesitation for wide release in the first place, new restrictions on the ability to sue firearms manufacturers should have made them "see the light." The market vacuum created by the piston driven M16 upper is beginning to fill with reliable examples from Leitner-Wise and POF-USA.

And now Colt, in a very predictable move, is about to release a piston driven version of it. Surprised?
Only time will tell...

Ernst Mauch, left and Larry Vickers, the fathers of the HK 416 system with two early prototypes. Yuma-September, 2003.

10 Inch Variant HK416
Specifications on other variants coming soon
Caliber Cyclic Rate Mag Capacity Mode of Fire Width (in) Height (in) Weight (lb) bbl. length (in) Overall
Length (in)
.223/5.56 x 45 700-900 RPM 20//30/100 Select 2.25 7.25 7.30 10 27.00/30.90
Click here for video story on HK416

What follows is an HKPRO Exclusive, a narrative on the development of the HK416 by Larry Vickers, of, one of the foremost experts on special operations, and their related small arms.
Larry has been a good friend to HKPRO.COM, and it is with great pleasure that we provide you with this inside look at one of the most significant advances to the M16 system since its inception. Advancement that Larry Vickers was an integral part of. Also, though he is modest about it, when he refers to "The Unit" below, he is referring to the U.S. Army's Elite Special Forces Operational Detachment- Delta.
The project started in the year 2001 when I was the weapons R&D NCO at my former unit. Jim Schatz was visiting on an unrelated matter when the topic came up of improving the military M4 carbine. I was well aware of HK’s success in fixing the problems of the British SA 80 and was very interested in what HK had in mind in terms of an upgrade to the M4 carbine. I have very extensive experience with the M4 even by Spec Ops standards both in using the M4 and training others to use it. I knew that the M4 as issued was having problems in SOCOM wide use, much of which is because the carbine was being used way outside it’s design parameters. If you keep the M4 lubricated, use only milspec ball ammo (M855 & M193), use magazines in good condition, and fire it on semi auto it works very well. But as soon as you try to push it outside those limits such as extreme firing conditions and extensive full auto fire, as well as running it with little or no lube you will have problems. In addition trying to issue versions with shorter than 14.5 inch barrels and suppressed fire are also big problem areas with the as issued M4. The design is a carbine modification of the 20 inch barreled AR 15/M 16 weapon system. The M4 is pushing that design as far as it can go and still have an acceptable degree of service life and reliability. Any requirements beyond that design envelope will require a redesign or a new weapon.
My former Unit had been searching for an M4 style carbine that was smaller and more maneuverable in confined spaces. This has been an ongoing effort to some degree ever since we had gone from MP5’s to M4’s. A lot of money had been spent on testing every short barreled AR style weapon we could find. At the end of the day we came to the conclusion that none of them answered our needs.

They may be fine for casual use but they were not suitable for the demands we place on a weapon of that type. In all honesty, none of them was even close. At that time we began our search to other non-AR style weapons such as the G36C and the SIG SG552. Shortly after these other efforts began we became aware of the HK offer of a product improvement program for the M4 carbine. HK had offered this to other key organizations in the US Military small arms community with no takers. HK was looking for loaner US Government property M4 carbines to analyze and begin an improvement process on, much like the SA80 program had preceded. The program would be of no cost to the Government with the understanding at the end of the program the Government had no obligation to purchase any product HK brought to the market. Bottom-line if we did not like what they produced we could just walk away. To me this was a no-brainer. I presented the proposal to the Unit chain of command and after a legal review it was decided to provide HK with the carbines they needed to begin the program .It was also understood that the Unit could pull out of the program at any time. As far as the Unit was concerned there was no downside to this arrangement. It is somewhat surprising why no other organization before the Unit took HK up on their very generous offer; however if you know the inner workings of the military small arms establishment and industry it is par for the course.
The modifications began with high speed video of the M4 carbine functioning. After carefully analyzing the firing cycle of the weapon a series of modifications were put into motion to address the various issues of the weapon. A key component was already done in the magazine that was taken from the SA80 program. (A little known fact is Ken Hackathorn and I brought the first SA80 magazines into the US in the year 2000 after a visit to HK Oberndorf (HKO) regarding the ill-fated HK 1911 program. I then placed an order for 200 magazines for test and evaluation at my Unit. That started a sequence of events that eventually led to the adoption of the HK M16/SA80 magazine for all of SOCOM.)
The main effort from the start was to adapt the unique HK gas tappet system used in the G36 to the M4 carbine. This was the crux of the effort from the very beginning. The engineers at HKO had the highest regard for several design features of the AR 15/M 16/M4 weapons system and they vowed from the start to retain as many of the good features the weapon already had and only address the characteristics that required attention.

Frankly, the M16 magazine design has inherent design flaws and a much better magazine could be utilized. The one major drawback to that is that it would make the magazine non-interchangeable with other M16 style weapons and magazines on the market. Unfortunately that took a different magazine off the table for this project. That left the gas system as the main effort.

The HKO engineers held the belief, as do I and many other knowledgeable firearms industry people, that the gas direct system of the AR family is less than optimum in many ways for a military service weapon. Frankly, the weapon has been as success in spite of this fact, not because of it. It was felt that the G36 gas system would be a perfect fit if it could be made to work within the M4 envelope. It answers the mail across the board as a gas operating system goes and in hindsight it is the gas system the AR should have had from the start. Essentially a product improved AR 180 /G 43/SVT 40 style gas tappet systems; it offers key proprietary features that no other gas tappet system has. In my opinion it is the best gas system currently on the market for a shoulder fired non-sustained fire weapon. HKO is justifiably proud of this and uses it whenever feasible. It is used in the G36, XM8, HK 416 and HK 417 rifles with it being one of the key attributes of those weapons.
At first simple modifications were performed using many of the original M4 components such as bolt and extractor. One thing that became apparent immediately was the extended service life of both of these critical components. That is when we discovered the hidden killer in the AR style gas direct system: heat. Heat from the gases funneled into the bolt carrier not only dry out lubricant and deposit carbon fouling, as anyone who has any time behind an AR style weapon knows, but also dramatically shortens service life of key components in the operating mechanism.

With the HK G36 style gas system, the operating parts stay dramatically cooler and thus prolong service life immeasurably. For instance, I have no idea how long an HK416 bolt and/or extractor will last because I have yet to see one break. I have seen HK416 style weapons with over 26,000 rounds fired through them with no parts breakages of any kind and plenty of serviceable barrel life. As I have demonstrated many times, the lack of heat transfer through the pusher rod of the gas tappet system and into the operating group is so dramatic that you can easily touch the pusher rod return spring and handle the bolt carrier in your bare hands after several magazines of full auto fire. The distinct advantages of this gas system over the original gas direct system are very impressive and have to be seen to be fully appreciated.
After the gas system was finalized and HK was fabricating all the key internal bolt carrier components, engineers at HKO turned their attention to the removable free float rail system. The Unit had a requirement that the rail system would allow access to the gas system for maintenance and return to zero for any rail mounted devices such as IR lasers. This was a very tall order to say the least. Frankly, I had serious doubts it could be done. What HKO brought to the table next is what really proved to the Unit and everyone involved that they truly are in a league of their own when it comes to engineering expertise.

The resulting HK 416 is a simple yet truly ingenious design that does exactly what it was asked to do. It has several proprietary features and is an example of superb engineering and manufacturing excellence on many levels. That was all the Unit needed to see and after a very successful 15,000 rd endurance test of one of the first production HK416 10 inch carbines, they placed the first order for several hundred HK416 complete 10 inch barreled weapons. Those particular carbines have been in continuous combat since when they left the factory in Oberndorf as this is written in June of 2006. No assault rifle in modern history has gone from development, testing, production, and sustained combat operations more quickly than the HK416. The Unit commander who was in place when the weapons were delivered said it was the most successful program the Unit had ever undertaken with a vendor. Needless to say I am very proud of the fact that I started the project back in 2001 and it has been a success; so much so that a follow on project with the HK417 is well on its way to being a sequel to the HK416 story. I can’t discuss that at this time but will give HKPRO an insider story when I can.
After fielding the HK416 only a few things were found to be in need of attention. One was that the heavy profile barrel under the handguards makes the weapon very heavy when accessories are attached. This was a by-product of the original M4 feedback and the projected high rate of fire the HK416 would have to endure within certain sectors of SOCOM that did a lot of full-auto fire. A lighter barrel profile that reduces the weight of the barrel by 7 ounces is available to answer that concern. Also some users were seeing slam fires when using non mil spec 5.56 mm/.223 ammo such as certain types of frangible. This is due to the higher closing energy of the bolt carrier due in part to the lack of gas rings and the heavier buffer and stronger spring. To address this, HKO designed a firing pin safety similar to the one used in the HK UMP 45 ACP SMG. This type safety is also being used in the HK417. In addition enhanced surface finishes are being researched as well as the ongoing refinement that occurs with all HK weapons.

In my estimation, the HK416 has 1/10th the carbon fouling in the receiver and bolt/bolt carrier as compared to a gas direct AR style weapon. This is equivalent to firing 1000 rounds through an HK416 being roughly the same as shooting 100 rounds through a conventional AR15/M16/M4 platform. If a sound suppressor is used, this ratio increases to approx 1/4th the amount of carbon fouling as a gas direct weapon.
As this is being written I have learned that all the US Military’s top special operations units in JSOC will be fielding the HK416 as their primary carbine. All the key Units in JSOC chose the HK416 in preference to the current M4 and the FN SCAR Light which is still in development for the rest of SOCOM. It is very satisfying to me that units that could field any carbine they want choose the HK416. This tells me we have done our job, and have done it well.
For the record, I have been one of the most vocal individuals inside HK pushing to have a civilian HK416 released to the gun buying public. Unfortunately, the decision is way above my pay grade. At this writing I have no idea if it will ever be available for the civilian market. I can promise you that I will keep pushing for it as long as I am associated with HK. Cross your fingers.

Robert Hirt of HK Oberndorf conducts mud testing at the Yuma Proving Ground, Sept. 2003

"Der Waffenmeister" Ernst Mauch dumping magazines though a 10 inch prototype 416

Vickers conducting a 416 familiarization lecture for the assembled press at the 2004 SHOT Show.

Vickers firing the 416 without an upper handguard during the 2004 SHOT Show demo. The gun was still not outfitted with the new proprietary handguards that Larry spoke of in his article. After he dumped several magazines on full auto without failure, he removed the piston rod, shown blurred as it is operating the action, and held it and the bolt carrier in his hands immediately after.

416 and Schmidt and Bender Short Dot scope, a truly revolutionary design with only one drawback: They are not cheap! For more information about this innovative scope and Vickers' involvement in its development, click here!

Both of these images are of U.S. Capitol Police, who, during a recent incident where they were activated on erroneous calls about gunshots at the Capitol, are deploying with their recently acquired HK416s. These rifles replaced the G36K that had been standard issue for this department to that point.

five seven

does anybody know how much fn scars are sellin for ?

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