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Comments

Deathman

This is a cool gun. Took mine out. Damn mag broke on shoot. The bottom fell out. So much for the fucking 10rnders.

David

Maybe that's why they give you two spares in the box.:)

I've also noticed that it is extremely hard to insert a fully loaded magazine into the gun with the slide closed. You have to push really hard. I wonder if this happens with the 20rnd. mags as well. Mine are in the mail.

Chris Muir

well, at least it doesn't stovepipe like my idiot Glock 19. My Colt's
had 10K rounds, and it never screwed up.

f18driver

David-
If yours are in the mail, where did you get your 20rounders, and if so how much. I need to buy 2 more.
thx

f18driver

Dave

I'm trying to find 20 round magazines for the FN FiveSeven pistol.

CB

That's nice. I'm afraid I can't help you as 1. I can't purchase this weapon in Australia and 2. this is a weblog, not a gun shop.

SR420

Interesting pistol. I handled one last week. Pulled the KYDEX covered metal slide off to look inside. The internals look like a Glock. Clyde Armory in Borgart-Athens GA has pistols, mags and ammo readily available.

This FN really does have a cool factor but I would not replace my 45ACP G21 with it. No Way!

Now if I could find a Bushmaster arm pistol from the late 70's ... that's another story ;)

Five-seveN owner

I have one of the tactical models with cuts in the rail, straight trigger guard, and (somewhat overly) checkered grip. The nice thing about the tactical, if you've been reading about the DAO models, is that it's single action. There's an internal hammer and a very clever little disconnector that prevents the firing pin in its housing from moving forward unless you are actually pulling the trigger, i.e. shouldn't be able to drop-fire or slam-fire.

It's becoming quite popular in the northern US in spite of its high price tag and unproven caliber - but they all start out unproven. SS190 is not available to individuals, but may not be strictly speaking illegal because the core is not all steel. It is aluminum with a steel penetrator. The SS109 5.56mm is legal here for similar reasons as it contains lead and steel in the core. SS192 is a nice hollow-point which is available at US$20/50 rd. box. It yaws reliably and quickly, probably better than the SS190 but I can't compare them at this point. The hollow-point also breaks up upon impact with a hard surface (concrete) though for obvious reasons I haven't exhaustively tested this.

There are a few "cons" for me about this firearm. I am not a fan of arms that do not fire without the magazine in place and as a safety this one disconnects the trigger when the magazine is removed. The trigger pull is a bit long for a single-action. I understand why that is seeing the internal safety around the firing pin, but it is a little unusual at first. The pull became more smooth after about 50 rounds.

My (non-expert) opinion is that it is what it is meant to be, a viable replacement for the 9mm. As far as feel and function, I couldn't be happier.

CB

I'm interested to know why you think that a firearm that can't "fire" the action without a mag in place is a liability. What other time are you going to fire the action unless with rounds in the chamber? Apart from that, I would like to hear of it's ability to engage successfully out to 100 metres at head size targets. Is this possible with this calibre?

Five-seveN owner

I see the magazine disconnect as a liability rather than an asset. I don't see where it adds any safety and it's a point of failure that could render an otherwise operable firearm useless. I do say otherwise operable because I would take hand-loading cartridges one at a time into the chamber over nothing at all. That's kind of a moot point because I don't consider this a carry gun at this time, but it's still something I think of. This may just be a bias I've grown into over time as almost every other pistol I own will fire without a magazine in the well. The issue was kind of underscored by the fact that I had to order a very specific magazine (part #3860190093) as older 20rd magazines do not engage the disconnector.

I haven't tried it out to 100m. I have used it most often indoors and a few times at 50 yards (45m). I was able to shoot group of 20 into about 4 1/2" at that distance the first day I had it. I can say it's been as accurate as I am able to shoot because that's no bigger a group than I've been able to shoot with any other pistol at that distance, and smaller than most. It is very consistent and I haven't needed to adjust the sights. Although part of that could be the fact that I only have FN loads to shoot - that may change as the cartridge (hopefully) grows in popularity.

Now I'm kind of curious about how it will do at 100m both in accuracy and penetration. I'll try a few distances from a solid rest to try to isolate my accuracy from the cartridge/pistol. I'll try to remember to let you know what I see, but pistol shooting for extreme accuracy isn't what I tend to do so it certainly won't be authoritative.

CB

I appreciate your taking the time to shoot over longer distances. I was under the impression that FN (5.7 x 28mm)and HK for that matter, developed the smaller, faster round (HK's 4.6 x 30mm) was to allow untrained hands to achieve greater accuracy at longer ranges. It seems odd that a round designed for Personal Defence Weaponry such as the P90 and it's ilk, MP7, which are claimed to be cabable of defeating body armour at 200metres should only be utilised at ranges no more than a 1/4 of that distance.

With limited recoil, and a high capacity, I see no reason why with practice you couldn't put 3 quick rounds into a head sized target at 100 metres. Why? This will provide me some 'real-world' information on the smaller calibres that I can use for some work related research. Once again, thanks for reading.

Allen Fletcher

As A police officer a magazine disconnect is a good idea in my perspective if a suspect grabs the gun from me if i can manage to drop the mag then he cant shoot me.

Eric

Is this weapon available to private citizens in the US? If not, is it because of the penetration factor of the ammo? Now that the "Assault Weapon" ban is up - can purchase one? If so, where? Is it illegal for me to have one, of just not available to buy? Any help would be apprecaited.

CB

Dunno dude. Try the Yank department of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Being an Aussie means I'm not that up to date with US firearm law.

wobby

Yep, they are legal in the U.S. I just picked up one last week. Heard a rumor yesterday that the ss192 ammo won't be available in the U.S. anymore, because of the penetration factor. Heard it will be replaces with ss196 which doesnt penetrate type II vests.

Jason

A mag disconnet is a good idea for a specific reason, that being if you get into a tussle with a convict or the like and he manipulates you mag release, you still can fire and put the SOB down with the chambered round. Will be picking up my Five Seven here soon, first time I have considered a cal. change. Will have to test the 5.7 before giving up .45 ACP.

DT

I don't think I'll be abandoning the .45 and 230 HydraShok anytime soon. Five-seveN is an interesting pistol, but with today's posting on the NRA-ILA daily email of an ATF description of the pistol and the available SS196 40gr. Hornady V-Max bullets at about 2000fps, I cannot imagine that it will provide "stopping power" any more than one could rely on a .22 MRF out of a rifle which is roughly equivalent. That said, love to have one to whack a few coyotes, raccoons, nutria, and whatnot here in Oregon.

Stevie T

The ATF website states that FN will no longer sell SS192 to the general public cuz of the penetration factor. It's an interesting piece. I want to try it at 100 yards to see if I really can "keep them all in a pie plate".

USAF VET

The Five-seveN is one of the best shooting handguns I have ever shot. This is coming from a huge fan and believer in the .45 ACP. I have shot everything from the 500 S&W and on down and the Five-seveN shoots so damn flat that you can routinely stay on target at 100yrds. Very little recoil allows faster follow on shots. Little bastard lobs that brass over into the next county though. I do not like the Mag Release on the IOM model that I have. If the "government" model was available when I got mine back in October I would have bought that one. But I still love the gun and the ammo. Do some research on the net and look at the ballistic testing, pretty impressive. Secret Service adopted the weapon and so have many other "elite" organizations, that has to say something about the gun and round. It is light even with 20rnds... it is now my CCW, hard to find a great holster for it though because of the weird trigger guard on the IOM. Give it a try, you will be impressed.

I am pissed that they sucumbed to the liberal media and discontinued the SS-192 rounds and are now giving us a wussy round (SS-196), looks like I am getting back into reloading ;o)

Sorry you Aussies cannot shoot it! Damn liberal governments. I have read some statistics that say that in the first year of the ban, the state of Victoria had Gun crime go up 400%. Sorry guys...

Watch out, boomerangs are next.

Five-seveN owner

Sadly, yes the SS192 is no longer being offered by FN which has created an instant black market where the SS192 can fetch up to five times its original shelf price. My understanding is that it has been completely discontinued.

The SS196 will have a nice "squishy" tip to make everyone** happy. I'm interested to see the ballistics of the 196 because if they can indeed push that big 40gr. bastard at 2000fps that seems to indicate a lot of additional "room" in the load. I would imagine it could move a 33gr. Speer TNT HP faster. I'd also like to see how the 40gr. Sierra HP does. I'm very anxiously awaiting complete reloading data, dies, etc.

I don't buy into the equivalent to a .22 Winchester Mag argument, and I've seen it before. The .22 Winchester Mag clocks 1900-2100fps, from a RIFLE barrel, and maxes around 1500fps from a pistol. I don't have ballistic coefficient and sectional density data for the FN rounds, but it's obvious that there is a vast difference between the .22 Win Mag round noses and the spire pointed 5.7 rounds. The currently available FN rounds yaw like the 5.56mm (actually more reliably like 5.45x39) rather than running straight and spreading like the .22 Win Mag. That is significant.

The 192 I have left is like gold until I learn to load something comparable myself. Long distance testing is on hold until the 196 comes out, but I suspect that it won't behave much differently if the speed is still in the 2000fps ballpark. I have every reason to believe it will do nicely at 100m, for a pistol, but I have difficulty seeing the practical purpose of trying to take a shot at that distance. I wouldn't call this a "hunting" pistol and it's pretty hard to imagine claiming defense at more than 20m. However I do have the same curiosity.

I can see the perspective of the LEO on the magazine disconnect, but I don't see that as a very effective safety. I wouldn't imagine that most people would be familiar enough with the Five-seveN that they would automatically sweep the safety off with their index finger. If that is your carry gun I would think leaving the manual safety on would be a better preventative. Have any departments adopted the FS?

** For those not familiar with US politics, "everyone" is the anti-gun lobby because the rights of the rest of us absolutely don't matter. Like schoolyard bullies they pick on anything different, and the 5.7x28 is certainly different. They believe that they can single out one gun, or one class of guns to ban and eventually ban them all one at a time. Incidentally, many of these people employ armed bodyguards - apparently it doesn't count if you don't own the gun yourself.

Five-seveN owner

Quick Update--
SS196 is supposed to achieve 1650fps with that 40gr V-max projectile. That's a really unfortunate thing to do to this caliber. Way to go FN, cravenly bowing to the whim of fanatical extremists bent on regulating you out of business. Remember to thank yourselves if they succeed.

And way to go Brady Bunch** making the short comings of body armor a popular talking point. Yes, level II doesn't stop high velocity rounds, 7.62x25 Tokarev, Hornet revolvers, hotter .44 Mags, and a whole lot of others. Of course this wasn't on too many minds until you made your little vest penetrating video. Maybe next time you can try wearing them - and test for effectiveness against headshots.


** Brady Bunch is probably someone's trademark - TM. In this case it means Handgun Control, Inc. aka whatever they call themselves these days - self-serving hypocrites who care about nothing but their own agenda and will try to achieve it at any cost to anyone.

Randy

You're welcome, Five-SeveN owner. Glad Brady could be of service to the families of America and refute the false claims of the NRA about the FiveSeveN. It never ceases to bemuse me how a gun nut will stop at nothing to get his hands on anything that shoots a live round, regardless of how many children have to die due to careless gun-loving adults. You should take a hard look at your organizations and how the gun manufacturers market to you. You're all so busy buying and shooting your arsenals you fail to see how many of your children are being injured and killed by your own guns.

If you had half a brain you would take a look at the geographical distribution of gun injury and death of kids ages 0-19 in the US. Ironic how the areas with the highest levels of gun ownership are also the areas with the highest number of kids being killed and injured by Daddy and Mommy's guns. You're great parents. You should thank the NRA for brainwashing you all to such a degree that you place the value of your guns over the lives of your children. I feel sorry for the kids of parents like you. When your children are injured or killed by your guns, I hope you'll thank the NRA.

Five-seveN owner

The "service" the Brady campaign provided was to point out, very publicly, the frailties of the vests that protect the men and women who protect our streets. I can't imagine being proud of that or being proud of trying to jeopardize those people to prove a (faulty) point.

I'm not going to waste my time disputing the rantings and blatherings of a Brady Bunch member, and it is truly ironic that you use the term "brainwashed" because they certainly seem to wash your skulls clean. I will however, for the benefit of those who don't live with this hypocrisy and rhetoric daily, explain a few things.

Children should be kept away from firearms. Anyone with a brain knows that so I don't need to go on about it.

Children also need to be kept away from choking hazards, poisonous chemicals, auto accidents, and burning buildings to name a few. In fact all of these things take far more children each year. Children are four times more likely to drown and twelve times more likely to die in an auto accident. Take a few minutes and peruse any set of unadulterated (not coming from HCI/Brady) statistics. You'll see the same numbers. In fact, your common sense will tell you that. You have far more cause for concern with that "happy meal" toy or the cleanser under the sink than the gun in the safe.

Brady has NOTHING to do with saving children, or protecting police officers - it has not a thing to do with anything but disarming law abiding citizens (because you can't disarm the criminals). If you don't like guns, don't buy them to make instructional videos about defeating police armor. Don't buy them for any reason. Don't hire people to carry them for you. And don't trouble yourself about mine - they're just fine locked safely away from little hands - and little minds.

If people like the Brady's made an effort to curb crime, to intervene in the lives of troubled youths on their way to being criminals, I might have an iota of respect for them. They don't - they have one and only one goal and that is disarming the law abiding public.

So, proud Brady fan, you can choose to be an unarmed victim, and you can make that choice for your children. Mine will grow up knowing how to safely use firearms.

Randy

As usual, gun nuts obfuscate the truth in order to justify their own morally bankrupt behavior. The Brady Campaign has never advocated taking away the rights of Americans to own firearms. But that's too subtle a point for most extreme gun owners. You notice I said, most extreme gun owners, not most gun owners. The vast majority of gun owners in America agree with Brady about closing the gun show loophole, having a strengthened ban on assault weapons, and safety devices on all guns sold. It's the NRA that is in the minority, and out of the mainstream.

If gun owners in the US were so "law abiding" and careful with their firearms, we wouldn't have over 2,600 children dying every year, the majority of them in their own homes, from guns. You've permitted the NRA to convince you that that cold, blue metal is more valuable than your own flesh and blood. You guys are so clueless you defend the rights of criminals to buy guns over the Internet, through the newspapers, and at gun shows without a background check. If you are so concerned about the image of gun owners as "law abiding" citizens, why don't you do something that would actually contribute to creating a positive image, like championing laws that prevent the wrong people from getting guns? Your consistent knee-jerk rejection of even the most common sense measures will be what defeats you in the end. All you "family values" types are going to find yourselves explaining how blindly promoting guns relates to your "family values" and Christian morals very soon.

By the way, who says I'm an unarmed victim?

Five-seveN owner

In a way it's refreshing to see the Brady logic laid out nakedly. You've already taken it straight to the argument that "if you don't agree with us you don't love kids". Well, two can play at that - if you don't like guns then you hate kids, puppies, mom, apple pie, and America, so there. No, it doesn't make any more or less sense when I say it either.

Brady doesn't care about children. Yes, children die of accidents, and on rare occasions those accidents are firearms accidents. The problem is poor parenting and poor supervision, not firearms. Irresponsible parents blame everyone but themselves - apparently some start early. If Brady actually cared about children and gun safety they might have some kind of safety training program - perhaps one like the NRA does.

Children drown far more often than they are accidentally shot. There are far fewer pool owners than gun owners. Therefore pools and their owners pose a significantly greater threat than gun owners. Now I'm certainly not for an outright pool ban. Then again, I don't have one, why should you? Let's start with the most dangerous looking ones, those kidney-shaped pools. Those are a kiddy deathtrap if I ever saw one. In fact, I would call those "assault" pools - they don't belong in people's yards. We had better include those oval ones too because they look like the kidney ones, a little bit. While we're at it I think something needs to be done about those above-ground pools, they tend to be less expensive hence "Saturday night special" pools. I'm more than a little concerned about the easy "concealability" of those remaining in-ground models while we're at it. They clearly must go. Is a bathtub a kind of pool?

The number you keep throwing around is an intentional deception. It isn't the figure on accidents, it's total "child" firearms deaths, and you define child as anyone under TWENTY. Sorry, nineteen-year-old drug dealers shot by police aren't "child firearms accidents". If you want the number of accidental firearms deaths for all people in the US ("children" under 99) it's about half of that. For actual children (as the rest of us define it) it's about a tenth of your number. Still a sad case of poor parenting, none should die, but the guns, pools, autos, cleansers, etc. aren't the ones to blame. It certainly isn't the epidemic you wish to paint it as.

The "gun show loophole" is a fallacy. It's the same private transfer of ownership that Sarah Brady herself practiced when giving a rifle to her son Scott. It's the same private transfer of ownership used to pass guns down from father to son/daughter for centuries. Even when in the few states permitting it, most gun shows do NOT allow transfer of firearms by persons who are not licensed dealers to anyone but dealers. Almost all transfers are via FFL's with the same checks and paperwork that occur at a gun store.

In the rare instance that neither the state nor the show prohibit individuals from offering firearms for sale to other individuals, and an individual is willing to pay the fee (~$50) for a table, if that individual were to offer for sale more than six (or two, depending on jurisdiction) firearms the ATF would charge that person with acting as an unlicensed dealer. Individuals simply don't transfer firearms this way.

The "loophole" argument is yet another measure that is meant to be an encumbrance to legitimate firearms owners and a step to eroding all firearms rights. Criminals don't purchase firearms at shows. Less than 2% of firearms used in crime originate from gun show sales even when you stretch the definition to include entities like flea markets. Of that 2% only a very tiny fraction COULD be sales between individuals, say 2% of 2%. This gaping "loophole", generously estimated at 4 in 10,000, could be plugged with state legislation in the states that allow unlicensed persons to transfer arms at shows.

When they understand the above, most Americans don't want the "loophole" changed. That is, they don't want to be told they can't transfer arms to their children. When similarly educated, they don't support the AWB either. This has nothing to do with extremists or "gun nuts" - it is common sense from common people. Your organization preys on the uneducated and unsuspecting using fear, deceit, and rhetoric. The Brady Campaign aka Handgun Control Inc. aka Million Mom March has the sole purpose of eroding firearms rights one by one. If you are confused about this you might want to read the Brady propaganda a little more closely.

The existing firearms laws are more than sufficient to keep criminals from obtaining firearms legally when properly enforced. The problem is that criminals tend to ignore laws, by definition. The only people regulated by laws are the law abiding and they are the Brady targets. "Tighter" control has proven it's effectiveness in places like Washington, D.C. - murder capitol of the US most years. It's a national embarrassment and a true testament to the ineffectiveness of gun "control" on crime. D.C. is the safest city in the US, for criminals.

The AWB is gone - it was a meaningless political grandstand that cost a lot of legislators their careers and had absolutely no effect on crime. More states are passing concealed carry laws and agreeing on reciprocity with each other. Voters, especially gun owning voters, are better educated and organized. Brady's arguments have become very transparent and most people don't fall for them anymore.

Newsflash champ, if you live in a state where you can't carry concealed, you're UNARMED. What are you going to do if you're out one night and a group of thugs decide to relieve you of your possessions and life while taking your wife into an alley for a "party"? Tell them about the shotgun at home in your basement? If you're unarmed, you're a VICTIM any time a criminal chooses to make you one.

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